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204p vs 20cv

The Zero Tolerance 0456 is a high-quality American-made folding knife that carries many of the features of a high-end knife - top quality materials, high tolerance manufacturing, and a design that reflects modern aesthetics with an eye towards performance. Chromium is what gives steel its ability to resist corrosion, but it is less tough and wear resistant than other metals. CTS-204P is made by the USA-based Carpenter Technology Corporation and CPM-20CV … When choosing between CPM S35VN and CPM 20CV, the first question to ask is whether you value toughness, or the blade's ability to keep from breaking, over edge retention, or the blade's ability to stay sharp. I decided to pull the trigger on a custom benchmade griptillian, with a drop point blade. Zero Tolerance: 0456 - Sinkevich Design Please note: our remaining stock is in the CPM-20CV blade steel (formerly listed as CTS-204P). It is made up of 1.9% carbon, 20% chromium, 4% vanadium, 1% molybdenum and 0.6% tungsten. According to some manufacturers and knife makers, the 20CV is the best of the three at holding an edge. I think 20cv has a very slight chemical composition difference and the powder technology is not as refined as m390. Of the three PM2's I have had, it was the only one out of the box that the knife was just flawless in every aspect. Knife makers tend to love CPM S35VN, so if you've spent any time on knife forums, you're probably familiar with it -- or at least have heard about it in passing. The SOCOM Elite® Manual sets the standard for tactical/utility cutlery. CPM 20CV Stahl ist die Antwort von Crucible Industries auf den Edelstahl M390 von Böhler.Er half Carpenter auch bei der Entwicklung des sehr ähnlichen CTS-204P.. Diese Fakten allein sollten dem Messerliebhaber schon eine Menge sagen. Carpenter CTS-204P is a powder metallurgy stainless steel. Despite the good edge retention, S35VN can be a bit difficult to sharpen. Indistinguishable from the same brand as a user for me, but different when you go from Spyderco to Hinderer to ZT. Hardness Ability. This steel type is equal to CTS-204P and Böhler M390-steel. No one type of steel is right for every knife, and by fully understanding the differences between popular types of steel, you'll be better able to make the right decision for your next big knife purchase. CHART The ZT 0562CF is a sturdy folding knife that features a carbon fiber handle and CPM-20CV blade steel. Stainless/Corrosion Resistance. Crucible's CPM melting process makes steel more uniform down to the microscopic level for very stable, tough steel that is resistant to cracking or breaking. The composition is almost identical to Bohler M390. Zero Tolerance: 0456 - Sinkevich Design Please note: our remaining stock is in the CPM-20CV blade steel (formerly listed as CTS-204P). CPM 20CV(Latrobe) - Recently appeared in Latrobe steel listings, and coincidentally, Duratech 20CV steel has disappeared form the same listing, composition is 100% identical though, apparently just the technology changed to CPM. On the Rockwell Hardness scale, CPM S35VN rates 59-61 HRC. Toughness. Zero Tolerance Knives (ZT Knives) is a big name in the knife world, delivering an amazing line of high-quality, hard-use knives that are popular amongst law enforcement, military, and civilian knife users. Indistinguishable from the same brand as a user for me, but different when you go from Spyderco to Hinderer to ZT. That’s part of why it’s so highly regarded, in the first place. Zero Tolerance, Chris Reeve and Hinderer all make several popular models with S35VN blades. Chromium | 14% | 20% Knifemaking & Materials M390 vs 20CV vs 204P – 3rd Generation Powder Metallurgy Technology? Just a great compromise of wear resistance, … It stays sharp for a long time, is stainless and extremely hard. Molybdenum | 2% | 1% In a smaller blade, like an everyday carry folder, 20CV is tough enough for most uses. How is the corrosion resistance on 20cv? Bohler M390, CTS-204P, and CPM-20CV are all essentially the same steel and sport a near identical composition. Higher chromium amounts allows some of the metal to form a protective, passive film of chromium oxide that repels rust and prevents staining. That's where m4 shines. Both have exceptional edge retention, though I'd say m390/20cv/204p out lasts it from what I've seen in all the independent tests. It is a bit trickier to sharpen (we recommend diamond stones) but once it is sharp it stays … Edge Retention. Vanadium | 3% | 4% Composition Comparison Graph For The Knife Steels Carpenter CTS-204P, Latrobe DuraTech 20CV, Bohler-Uddeholm M390 Version 4.36 M390 / CPM 20CV is a PM stainless steel that offers good wear resistance with excellent corrosion resistance through the use of high chromium and vanadium content. The vanadium in the alloy works to create a fine grain structure that helps hold an edge. S35VN is as tough on longitude as 420C (the hardest stainless steel), but five times tougher on transverse so it won't chip or break. For more info check Duratech 20CV … Crucible achieved the balance by combining a vanadium for edge retention with a high percentage of chromium. The CATRA test measures the sharpness and edge life of a blade by comparing it to 440C; CPM S35VN is 145% better. Made by @Crucible CPM 20CV is a martensitic stainless steel high in Vanadium, Chromium, and Carbon for excellent wear resistance and corrosion resistance, it’s used for plastic injection feed screws, barrel liners, screw tips, mold cavities, and premium Knives.. But my employer frowns upon fixed blades because they're "more likely to be used violently or injure you on accident". According to some manufacturers and knife makers, the 20CV is the best of the three at holding an edge. Stainless/Corrosion Resistance. Given a good process, the M390/20CV/204P family can be plenty edge-stable (read as: not chippy or prone to rolling) at 62-64 hrc. CPM S35VN hasn't been around all that long -- it originated in 2009 as Crucible Industries' attempt to improve on their previous top steel, CPM S30V. It's comparable to Bohler's M390 stainless steel or Carpenter's CTS-204P and, like those alloys, takes a mirrored finish well. I dunno about you, but I can absolutely tell the difference in cutting ability between my Kershaw cryo (8cr13mov) and my sog … Carbon | 1.4% | 1.9% Ive only ever had 154cm and S30V from benchmade, and many other steels from different manufacturers, but I"ve never heard of M4 or 20CV. 20cv is an improvement in my opinion. I have a knife with m390 and love this steel 204p and 20cv are supposed to be US versions of bohlers m390. Knifemaking & Materials M390 vs 20CV vs 204P – 3rd Generation Powder Metallurgy Technology? Edge retention testing is continuing, we have now tested 18 different steels, and four of those steels with multiple heat treatments. Comparing: CPM S35VN vs. CPM 20CV. They're all corrosion resistant steels aimed at toughness and edge retention. 20CV and M390 are shown in the table above for comparison purposes. When choosing between CPM S35VN and CPM 20CV, the first question to ask is whether you value toughness, or the blade's ability to keep from breaking, over edge retention, or the blade's ability to stay sharp. On the surface, the blade itself looks identical to that found on the original models. S35VN is as tough on longitude as 420C (the hardest stainless steel), but five times tougher on transverse so it won't chip or break. It is highly wear resistant so it will hold an edge for a long time. The higher percentage of vanadium in this steel creates a fine grain structure to better hold an edge. CPM 20CV-steel. Edge Retention. CTS-204P/CPM-20CV/Bohler M390 (Same steel, different companies, imo the best balance of edge retention, toughness, and stainless without compromising anything, it really doesn't get better than this. Hardness Ability. It is one of the most coveted steels of the moment. Higher chromium amounts allows some of the metal to form a protective, passive film of chromium oxide that repels rust and prevents staining. CPM 20CV is a steel created by Crucible to be excellent at resisting wear and corrosion, balanced with good toughness. Introduction to CPM 20CV You won’t have any regrets! In a carbon-rich alloy like CPM 20CV, the process of austenitization heats the steel until its crystalline structure changes to become austenite instead of ferrite. Scales are one thing, but let’s discuss the business end. Hardness Ability. Still 20cv is supposed to be a good steel. Been lots of talk about M390/20CV/204P, about there HRC, about how HRC is relevant to edge retention, and how relevant my … Source: Knife Steel Nerds. Despite the good edge retention, S35VN can be a bit difficult to sharpen. What sets the 556-1 apart is the CPM-20Vsteel alloy which you won’t find on any of the previous Griptilian models. Edge Retention. November 22, 2014 at 7:56 pm. Comparing: CPM S35VN vs. CPM 20CV. Post by Larrin » Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:16 pm . Crucible's CPM melting process makes steel more uniform down to the microscopic level for very stable, tough steel that is resistant to cracking or breaking. CPM 20CV is one of the best steels for retaining an edge. Spyderco Paramilitary 2 Tan G-10 - 20CV Blade. All-Around: M390, CTS-204P, and CPM-20CV. CPM stands for, “Crucible Particle Metallurgy” and is one of the single most coveted stainless “super steels” … Worth $200 bucks for a custom knife in 20CV then? CPM 20CV Steel is Crucible’s answer to Bohler’s M390 stainless steel. CPM-M4 is a bit of a different animal though, it's harder and tougher than m390, CPM-20CV or CTS-204P, but it's a lot less corrosion resistant than any of those three. The addition of molybdenum increases the material's strength to properly hold the edge. Which One is Better? CTS-204P. No one type of steel is right for every knife, and by fully understanding the differences between popular types of steel, you'll be better able to make the right decision for your next big knife purchase. If you’re looking for all all-around best knife steel, you’d be hard-pressed to find one better than Bohler Uddeholm M390. Zero Tolerance, Chris Reeve and Hinderer all make several popular models with S35VN blades. It also helped Carpenter to create CTS-204P, which is also quite similar. It's comparable to Bohler's M390 stainless steel or Carpenter's CTS-204P and, like those alloys, takes a mirrored finish well. Just a great compromise of wear resistance, toughness and corrosion resistance. CPM S35VN is made with 14% chromium to maximize stain resistance and corrosion without giving up too much toughness. That’s part of why it’s so highly regarded, in the first place. Crucible achieved the balance by combining a vanadium for edge retention with a high percentage of chromium. Stainless/Corrosion Resistance. There are only a few hundred of the m390 0562s out there. Which is bull, anybody who knows anything about knives will tell you a quality fixed blade is inherently sturdier than a folder, since there's no lock to fail on you. Spyderco Paramilitary 2 Tan G-10 - 20CV Blade. Your own use of the blade will determine which one is slightly better for your needs. This premium "super steel" is used in many Benchmade knives and several Hinderer and Zero Tolerance models. The addition of molybdenum also helps to keep away corrosion, specifically the type that causes pitting in the steel. The higher percentage of vanadium in this steel creates a fine grain structure to better hold an edge. The addition of molybdenum increases the material's strength to properly hold the edge. This puts them comfortably in the middle-to-high-end of the hardness range for premium knife steels. CPM 20CV is a steel created by Crucible to be excellent at resisting wear and corrosion, balanced with good toughness. Too common to be called "Hype". Introduction to CPM S35VN I have all 3 from the same brand (20cv and m390 PM2, 204p Military; and m390 and 20cv from Hinderer or ZT). Crucible's goal was to create an even tougher steel that didn't sacrifice resistance to corrosion, and they did that by using niobium carbides in place of some of S30V's vanadium carbides. This ZT flipper design comes acclaimed designer Dmitry Sinkevich. This Griptillian has a blade of CPM 20CV-steel. CPM S35VN is made with 14% chromium to maximize stain resistance and corrosion without giving up too much toughness. I have an esee izula for that, great little blade. The 20CV stainless steel retains sharpness extremely well and is … The answer depends on what you'll be primarily using the knife for. Yeah, you can also add CTS-204P to that club. The CATRA test, which measures the sharpness and edge life of a blade by comparing it to 440C, rates CPM 20CV 180% better. Reply. The 0456 offers the premium cutting power for which ZT is well known in a knife with standout looks that are just waiting to be shown off. It is made up of 1.9% carbon, 20% chromium, 4% vanadium, 1% molybdenum and 0.6% tungsten. The addition of molybdenum also helps to keep away corrosion, specifically the type that causes pitting in the steel. � Molybdenum helps to prevent the pitting type of corrosion by lending the steel more strength. The 0456 offers the premium cutting power for which ZT is well known in a … Corrosion Resistance (out of 5) | 3.5 | 4 The two steels also have a similar hardness profile on the Rockwell scale - up to 61. This Zero Tolerance knife is made in the USA. Both CPM S35VN and CPM 20CV contain vanadium, which is valued for its ability to create a finer grain in the steel that typically improves its ability to hold an edge. CPM-20CV is Crucible’s version of Bohler’s popular M390 steel which also influenced Carpenter to copycat with CTS-204P. With significant amounts of Chromium, Molybdenum, Vanadium, and Tungsten, these steels are 100% ready for action. The CATRA test measures the sharpness and edge life of a blade by comparing it to 440C; CPM S35VN is 145% better. The downside is that 20CV can be extremely challenging to properly sharpen. It's comparable to Bohler's M390 stainless steel or Carpenter's CTS-204P and, like those alloys, takes a mirrored finish well. The original SOCOM has remained a highly popular folding knife since its inception in 1996. CPM-20CV is Crucible’s version of Bohler’s popular M390 steel which also influenced Carpenter to copycat with CTS-204P.. As a Powder Metallurgy (PM) tool steel, you get a combination of impressive wear resistance and edge retention plus the added benefit of being highly corrosion resistant due to high levels of chromium. Be first to receive news about sales, coupons & new promotions. From an elemental perspective, the two … At lower Rockwell's 20cv can be tough but not really at 60-62hrc. The combination of carbides in CPM 20CV makes the blade tough, but not as resistant to breakage or chipping as other premium steels. For that matter, most of the steels like Cruwear, K390, etc, derive reputations from being stable at high hardness. The finished S35VN steel is made of 1.4% carbon, 14% chromium, 3% vanadium, 2% molybdenum and 0.5% niobium. Choosing the best steel for your everyday carry knife or another blade that you'll be relying on for a specific task can require some research. The CATRA test, which measures the sharpness and edge life of a blade by comparing it to 440C, rates CPM 20CV 180% better. Toughness. CPM steht für “Crucible Particle Metallurgy” und ist einer der beliebtesten rostfreien … If you’re looking for all all-around best knife steel, you’d be hard-pressed to find one better than Bohler Uddeholm M390. Too common to be called "Hype". Hardness Ability. The Griptillian has a CPM 20CV-steel blade. Chromium is what gives steel its ability to resist corrosion, but it is less tough and wear resistant than other metals. The high percentage of chromium with a bit of molybdenum makes 20CV one of the best high-end, corrosion-resistent steels used in knife blades today. Its high austenizing … The two steels also have a similar hardness profile on the Rockwell scale - up to 61. I have all 3 from the same brand (20cv and m390 PM2, 204p Military; and m390 and 20cv from Hinderer or ZT). Spyderco planned its initial use of CTS XHP in the creation of a 5.3-ounce knife with a 3.13-inch skinner blade. March 31, 2020. Edge retention testing is continuing, we have now tested 18 different steels, and four of those steels with … Tungsten | 0 | 0.6%. Adding molybdenum increases the strength needed to hold the edge over time, and the added tungsten also helps keep the edge. Unless of course, you would like to force the patina. All of the steels run sub $200, the kydex sheathes from Bradford are nice too and I would recommend them often the leather ones. Zero Tolerance and Belarusian custom knife maker Dmitry Sinkevich have teamed up to produce the 0456. Could be mistaken though. Adding molybdenum increases the strength needed to hold the edge over time, and the added tungsten also helps keep the edge. CPM 20CV is one of the best steels for retaining an edge. I also did experiments to analyze the different products including carbide size, impurity levels, and inclusions. Molybdenum helps to prevent the pitting type of corrosion by lending the steel more strength. This premium "super steel" is used in many Benchmade knives and several Hinderer and Zero Tolerance models. CTS-204p is a fantastic super steel and the Paramilitary 2 is probably the highest performing folder for the money. 7 thoughts on “M390 vs 20CV vs 204P – 3rd Generation Powder Metallurgy Technology?” andre says: April 1, 2020 at 8:55 pm Very interesting insight into pm steels… one question, the appearance of 20cv and m390 microgaphs… It looks like there are a larger amount of smaller carbides as well as the ones that are … They're all corrosion resistant steels aimed at toughness and edge retention. The high percentage of chromium with a bit of molybdenum makes 20CV one of the best high-end, corrosion-resistent steels used in knife blades today. For that matter, most of the steels like Cruwear, K390, etc, derive reputations from being stable at high hardness. Many quality knife manufacturers use both types of steel in their offerings, so it's important to remember that both are good choices for toughness, wear and edge retention. If you'll be using a larger blade or need something that will work for frequent, heavy duty tasks, the toughness of the S35VN may make it a better choice. These facts alone should tell you something. SOG then released the Team Leader model in Duratech 20CV. Seems Spyderco just nailed that run. Many quality knife manufacturers use both types of steel in their offerings, so it's important to remember that both are good choices for toughness, wear and edge retention. The only m4 I generally see tested is from Benchmade or spyderco, some custom makers take it to a higher Rockwell. Niobium is even better than vanadium at keeping grain sizes small, so its addition to the alloy helps increase edge retention without giving up toughness or wear resistance. Knife makers tend to love CPM S35VN, so if you've spent any time on knife forums, you're probably familiar with it -- or at least have heard about it in passing. SOG then released the Team Leader model in Duratech 20CV. Niobium | 0.5% | 0 (Carbides are hard particles comprised of carbon alloys in the steel matrix that indicate toughness and wear resistance but can be brittle in the wrong combinations. CPM 20CV is a martensitic steel, which refers to its hard crystalline structure with lens-shaped or lenticular grains. CPM 20CV Steel Introduction. Latrobe was purchased by Carpenter in 2011 [13] though Carpenter continued to sell their CTS-204P. For a heavy-on-the-science look at carbides, visit Knife Steel Nerds). It is one of the most coveted steel types of the moment. For a heavy-on-the-science look at carbides, visit Knife Steel Nerds). Both CPM S35VN and CPM 20CV contain vanadium, which is valued for its ability to create a finer grain in the steel that typically improves its ability to hold an edge. Given a good process, the M390/20CV/204P family can be plenty edge-stable (read as: not chippy or prone to rolling) at 62-64 hrc. The addition of niobium makes CPM S35VN about 15% to 20% tougher than CPM S30V without giving up any durability. Many others have reported theirs being top notch in everyway also. The answer depends on what you'll be primarily using the knife for. Data Sheets: 20CV Data Sheet CTS-204P Data Sheet M390 Data Sheet Edge Retention. The downside is that 20CV can be extremely challenging to properly sharpen. In a smaller blade, like an everyday carry folder, 20CV is tough enough for most uses. CPM-M4 is a bit of a different animal though, it's harder and tougher than m390, CPM-20CV or CTS-204P, but it's a lot less corrosion resistant than any of those three. And thanks for the info. It's low maintenance and great at absolutely everything) Come to Patreon if you want updates on testing as it is … Zero Tolerance and Belarusian custom knife maker Dmitry Sinkevich have teamed up to produce the 0456. Toughness (out of 5) | 4 | 3 They're all corrosion resistant steels aimed at toughness and edge retention. 20cv will hold an edge the longest, so if you don’t plan on beating on the thing I would go with that. Choosing the best steel for your everyday carry knife or another blade that you'll be relying on for a specific task can require some research. M390 vs 20CV vs 204P - 3rd Generation Powder Metallurgy. According to some manufacturers and knife makers, the 20CV is the best of the three at holding an edge. Winkler Highland Hatchet - Curly Oak Tomahawk, Chris Reeve Large Sebenza 21 Tanto - Micarta Inlay Folding Knife, Kurt Merriken Custom 3" Phantom San Mai Damascus, Brian Tighe - Tighe Down Integral - RWL34 & Carbon Fiber Inlay, Hinderer Extreme Duty Pen Copper - EDP Tactical Pen, Tuff Writer Precision Press Flamed Titanium Tactical Pen. But the question I have is which steel would you recommend? The m390 0562cf's are more expensive than the 204p version because they're more rare. CPM S35VN hasn't been around all that long -- it originated in 2009 as Crucible Industries' attempt to improve on their previous top steel, CPM S30V. Latrobe was purchased by Carpenter in 2011 [13] though Carpenter continued to sell their CTS-204P. I would recommend keeping your M4 blades with a thin coat of oil on them when not in use to prevent them from corroding. M390 vs 20CV vs 204P – 3rd Generation Powder Metallurgy Technology? The knife was originally in m390 but they switched to 204p because they were having problems getting m390. Image from a 2005 Blade Magazine [8] Carpenter steel introduced their copy of M390 as “Micromelt 20-4” in 2009 [10][11] and was renamed as “CTS-204P” by the beginning of 2010 [12]. Hey all, this is my first post, though I've been lurking around for awhile now. According to some manufacturers and knife makers, the 20CV is the best of the three at holding an edge. If you'll be using a larger blade or need something that will work for frequent, heavy duty tasks, the toughness of the S35VN may make it a better choice. The addition of niobium makes CPM S35VN about 15% to 20% tougher than CPM S30V without giving up any durability. Image from a 2005 Blade Magazine [8] Carpenter steel introduced their copy of M390 as “Micromelt 20-4” in 2009 [10][11] and was renamed as “CTS-204P” by the beginning of 2010 [12]. Not sure yet on designs and colors. Another consideration is corrosion. (Carbides are hard particles comprised of carbon alloys in the steel matrix that indicate toughness and wear resistance but can be brittle in the wrong combinations. Toughness. The combination of carbides in CPM 20CV makes the blade tough, but not as resistant to breakage or chipping as other premium steels. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, Press J to jump to the feed. Edge Retention (out of 5) | 4 | 5 You are viewing 20CV. On the Rockwell Hardness scale, CPM S35VN rates 59-61 HRC. Crucible's goal was to create an even tougher steel that didn't sacrifice resistance to corrosion, and they did that by using niobium carbides in place of some of S30V's vanadium carbides. So we can understand more the Steel, let’s see its chemical … On the Rockwell Hardness scale, CPM S35VN rates 58-61 HRC. To the compare by cts 204p vs m390 now the described the cts 204p.The nearly four-inch blade is created of fine-grained CTS 204P, a challenging, use and deterioration proof metal ready for hard-duty. -- | CPM S35VN Steel | CPM 20CV Niobium is even better than vanadium at keeping grain sizes small, so its addition to the alloy helps increase edge retention without giving up toughness or wear resistance. I wrote an article describing the difference in process between different powder metallurgy production companies making knife steels. The finished S35VN steel is made of 1.4% carbon, 14% chromium, 3% vanadium, 2% molybdenum and 0.5% niobium. Toughness. interestingly, Crucible doesn't list CPM 20CV steel on their website. Yeah, you can also add CTS-204P to that club. S35VN is a tougher steel, but falls short of 20CV in edge retention. Martensite forms when austenite cools so quickly that … HRC | 58-61 | 59-61 Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. The vanadium in the alloy works to create a fine grain structure that helps hold an edge. M4 is not stainless, but it is tougher than the rest. Like you said, m390 and 204p (and also 20CV) are basically identical I say go for it. All-Around: M390, CTS-204P, and CPM-20CV. On the Rockwell Hardness scale, CPM S35VN rates 58-61 HRC. CTS-204p which I have, out performed M390 by some degree in Jim Ankerson's edge retension testing. For use in a marine environment or other area where corrosion is a concern, the 20CV with its higher chromium content will resist rust and staining better than the S35VN steel. ... Because the older run of the knife was with CTS-204P I called the company prior to purchase because I really wanted the CPM-20 CV. CTS 204p Vs M390 CTS 204p.

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